[00:00:00] Filip Popov:
Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us for another episode of Espresso 4.0. Today we have a very special guest, Steven Vettermann. Thank you, Steven, for joining me for a cup of coffee and a discussion about Industry 4.0.
[00:00:15] Steven Vettermann:
Pleasure to be here.
[00:00:18] Filip Popov:
Excellent. Thank you. We're glad to have you and why don't we jump right into it and let's start by you telling us a little bit about yourself, who you are and what your mission is.
[00:00:29] Steven Vettermann:
So, thanks a lot, Filip. I'm Steven Vettermann, a thought leader and R&D manager at Ascon Systems, a neutral software vendor providing a solution for realizing software-defined production. My favorite topics are AI, of course, software-defined production, and the industrial metaverse. Originally, I studied mechanical engineering, married IT security and PLM in my PhD, and after that I was leading in standardization organization and a systems engineering team. Now, I'm working to realize the factory of the future. And all over my journey, it was driven by a passion for digital transformation and innovation.
[00:01:22] Filip Popov:
You mentioned that you're now on a mission to, you know, bring about smart manufacturing, but in our earlier conversation, you said that companies approach Industry 4.0 technologies as something to pepper on top. Systems rather than embracing the cultural and process change that is required. What are the strategies one organization can adopt to overcome this mindset?
[00:01:51] Steven Vettermann:
Yeah, peppering Industry 4.0 on top of legacy systems is like slapping a high-performance boiler on a vintage car that looks promising but doesn't make the car faster. I'm convinced that organizations must dig deeper, starting with their cultural DNA. Yes, we need a mindset of openness to innovation, not driven by fear but by embracing innovation.
As you know, the ideal moment for starting to undertake success is, as often, starting with achieving these goals yesterday. But to be honest, the next best opportunity is starting today. And of course, such a product is daunting, but as usual, don't put it off until tomorrow because tomorrow will never come.
I think that's a normal way of life. The practical strategy is creating lighthouse projects. These are focused, small-scale implementations that showcase the tangible benefits of transformation without overwhelming the organization. It's about tasting the cake before, you know, baking the full batch.
[00:03:31] Filip Popov:
Yeah.
[00:03:33] Steven Vettermann:
Yep.
[00:03:35] Filip Popov:
Okay. Thank you, Steven. In your experience, why is it challenging for industries to move away from rigid hardware-centering processes towards flexible software-defined solutions? Is it just the culture, or is there anything more to it?
[00:03:50] Steven Vettermann:
It's more or less a mix of many things. So, when you're looking into the industry and observing how the people are thinking, um, yeah, it often comes to my mind a picture like imagine you're running marathons in steel boots for decades, and suddenly someone comes along and offers you lightweight running shoes.
Sounds great, but you know, your whole body, even your mindset, is conditioned to running in the old gear and people resist to address new topics because they need a certain kind of motivation. And unless nobody is changing the game, people will stick to it. And, when you observe what's happening in the past, so was there, does this momentum happens in industry look about, you know, Nokia, for example. But to be honest, do we have this kind of iPhone momentum in automation? No, but we are very close, so today, we're facing a situation where quarterly reports are solving the daily problems that seem to be more important. And hardware-centric processes are deeply ingrained into the physical setup and the worker's habits.
And this makes, you know, people a little bit hesitant, so let's phrase it like that. But to increase the transition towards that, you could set up some kind of hybrid system bridging the hardware and the software. So, the old setup with a new setup demonstrates values while building trust in the new approach. The motivation behind this is always the same. Yeah, being prepared for the future, like old Abe Lincoln, someone quoted: "Give me four or six hours to chop a tree. I will spend the first four hours shaping the axe."
[00:06:30] Filip Popov:
Indeed. In fact, your metaphor about the marathon brings to mind the picture of two Neanderthals pushing a cart with wheels in the shape of squares. Obviously, it's very difficult to push something with square wheels. And the third one coming in carrying an actual round wheel, proposing a change, and them responding: "but we've always done it this way." Right? Famous last words. Um, okay. Thanks for diving deeper into that. How can software-driven approaches to manufacturing improve operational flexibility while ensuring seamless integration with existing infrastructure?
[00:07:09] Steven Vettermann:
So, software is like an orchestra conductor in this environment. The conductor doesn't play the instruments but ensures that every musician is in sync, producing a beautiful performance and software-defined production. So, as our solution does it, for example, it does the same. It integrates diverse systems.
So, aging machines, cutting edge IOT devices, but even enterprise systems and orchestrate this to work in harmony and as software can run everywhere and can modify it anywhere. This is an advantage because of the hardware-driven setup. So, we see old, more old fashioned PLCs, let's phrase it like this, where you usually have to work with proprietary systems on site, which makes life very tricky and time consuming. With a more software-driven approach, you can realize modern UX and UI designs and follow low code paradigms. And this is not only addressing the flexibility, it's always means for overcoming the lack of skilled workers.
[00:08:36] Filip Popov:
Fair point. Now you mentioned also quarterly thinking, right? Just that solving for tomorrow, for, for today's problems rather than thinking long term. And additionally, you've highlighted the importance of integrating new technologies while addressing cultural resistance. How can businesses align short term goals with long term transformation strategies?
[00:09:03] Steven Vettermann:
So, taking another picture, digital transformation is like planting an orchard. In the short term, you plant saplings bearing no fruits. But you can additionally grow fast-yielding crops, sustaining yourself and bringing this in balance. So that's my picture behind driving digital transformation, and what can be done is for the business to break its digital transformation journey into phases.
So, thinking about immediate operations. So, gaining additional transparency, getting order into the processes. So standardized, motorized, because when we are talking about automation, we have to talk about clear information, not between people, but between machines. And they need really, you know, um, a good set of information and, um, standardized processes.
For a midterm approach, then you can talk about, because you did your homework, then you can talk about, um, taking advantage of AI optimizations or using co-pilots, dissolving the hardware, or the hard coded end-to-end information change, and so forth. And as a final step, then let's talk about, you know, the full-scale autonomous factory, and each step has to deliver a value, reinforcing the confidence for the larger journey to eat the elephant in pieces. And when I'm talking about values, it's not only about talking about higher productivity. While you could also be more sustainable conforming to the new regulations or certifications, you could also awaken within your company the spirit to embrace, you know, the future and be a more attractive employer.
[00:11:22] Filip Popov:
Yeah, okay, fair enough. You actually have a lot of checkpoints there; sorry that you've checked a lot of things off of that checklist with the technology, indeed. Some things that often get overlooked. Now, can you share with us an example from your personal experience working in the sector that you've managed to overcome resistance to change and which led to significant improvement in this case, in production and operational efficiency?
[00:11:52] Steven Vettermann:
Yeah, yeah. So, I recall a manufacturer that initially resisted on predictive maintenance. So, the workers were worried about losing their gut instinct. So, they've over decades gathered experience regarding the machines, but after piloting the system on just one production line, they saw the downtime could be decreased by five percent, error prevention increase by 90 percent, and traceability increased by 100 percent. So, the operators were suddenly the champions of the system because they realized that this enhanced their expertise rather than the machine was replacing this.
[00:12:47] Filip Popov:
Indeed, yep. I was faced with a similar question in a recent conversation with an expert in the industry who asked me how we deal with change management and nonbelievers. And the truth is, as soon as you have those, the first piece of elephant, right? As you mentioned, you have the first bite, you have the first success, and you have the first results, which can be achieved rather fast, depending on the case, but no more than six months pilot. You have convertees, right? People see the actual value. It's much more tangible. And now your staunchest opponents have no choice but to look at the actual data and the results black and white and to agree that this, in fact, is the technology that could, in fact, augment and improve their production, make their lives easier, and so on and so forth. And I see that my experience pretty much echoes yours in this case.
[00:14:00] Steven Vettermann:
Yeah, yeah. It's, you know, defining a speedboat and then, you know, while you age, the experiences gathered in the past. And when you can come up and show the results of, you know, the old approach and the new approach. The new approach is somehow, in whatever relation, 20% better, and then you have your momentum. Even in the discussions with the obstructionists.
[00:14:30] Filip Popov:
Yeah.
[00:14:30] Steven Vettermann:
The hunger comes while eating.
[00:14:32] Filip Popov:
Yes. Fair enough. Okay. Thank you, Steven, for answering my burning questions, the more professional ones. I do have now a little bit more lighthearted ones just so for me and for the audience to get to know you a little bit better. So, typically, I ask all of our guests these last two questions, starting with: what innovation or technology are you most excited about right now? Not necessarily under the umbrella of Industry 4.0.
[00:15:02] Steven Vettermann:
Yeah. So, one is quantum computing. It's fascinating to me because...
[00:15:11] Filip Popov:
You're the second guest to tell me that.
[00:15:15] Steven Vettermann:
But an old friend of mine, Taro Shimada, he's the CEO of Toshiba, he made me think of it, to be honest, and you know, it's the potential to solve complex optimization problems in milliseconds. If you, you know, just dive into this and realize how this can change, you know, manufacturing, logistics, healthcare, and whatever. And you just stand there with an open mouth and say, wow.
[00:15:47] Filip Popov:
Yeah.
[00:15:48] Steven Vettermann:
And the other thing, it's a little bit related to Industry 4.0 because it's still AI and the industrial metaverse because I think we only scratch, you know, the surface of what's possible. And mostly because we are still stinking far too much along the lines of how we work today.
This also relates a little bit to other topics related to software-defined production, which are gamification and decentralization. So, turning the whole thing, how we currently work with the super factories and so on, completely around and ask ourselves, do we want to work in a way as we do it today and change things? And while doing this, I also love, so I love technology on the one hand, but I also love to think about the impact on, you know, the social environment and the the ecological consequences of its use.
[00:17:00] Filip Popov:
Yeah.
[00:17:00] Steven Vettermann:
These are the topics which currently, you know, besides all the business stuff are, you know, driving me.
[00:17:08] Filip Popov:
Okay. Yeah. I think you're right about us only scratching the surface about the industrial metaverse. And I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that the issue why we're not moving towards that at a much faster rate is because a lot of industrials are focusing on how can we, well, pepper technology, maybe is too pejorative, on top of the existing one, maybe they're too focused on what is and how can it be approved and modified as opposed to maybe having a lot more radical approach as to rethinking entirely the whole playbook, right? Okay, and last but not least, if I called you at 2 PM on a Sunday, what would I be interrupting you in?
[00:17:53] Steven Vettermann:
Well, assuming it isn't an unexpected work call.
[00:17:59] Filip Popov:
No, no, no.
[00:18:00] Steven Vettermann:
You'd likely find me in preparing my next sailing trip.
[00:18:05] Filip Popov:
Okay.
[00:18:05] Steven Vettermann:
Because, for me, sailing is some kind of mental reset.
[00:18:12] Filip Popov:
Yeah.
[00:18:12] Steven Vettermann:
When I'm at sea, I often draw the parallels between sailing and innovation because you have to have a plan A, B, C, and you know, while sailing, you have to find the right sail trim, navigation through the elements, challenges. On the other hand, you're enjoying the end force power, the movement, and this is the reward. And if it's not this, you might find me experimenting in the kitchen. Because cooking, like digital transformation, is about blending the right ingredients and techniques to create something meaningful. And in this case, also something very delicious.
[00:19:01] Filip Popov:
Okay, I do have a follow-up question now that you mentioned. Gun to your head. A gun to your head, prepare me your best meal. What do you go for?
[00:19:14] Steven Vettermann:
We're preparing my best meal?
[00:19:16] Filip Popov:
Yeah.
[00:19:17] Steven Vettermann:
Now I have to decide. So I'll tell you what I'm currently doing. You know, I'm German, and I like bread. And even in Germany, it's currently, with all the industrialization, difficult to get good bread. And so, you often find me in the kitchen experimenting and driving the best bread, making your own ingredients. And, you know, see the result and improve, getting better and really getting something delicious. And sometimes you see me in the kitchen, you know, with all the flour around me. It's then you hear this "mmm," and because it's really good, it's like being a child in, you know, in a toy store.
[00:20:17] Filip Popov:
Yeah. So it's, you make a sourdough bread with a starter, sourdough starter and everything. Yes.
[00:20:21] Steven Vettermann:
Yes. And even this, I do the ingredients by myself.
[00:20:29] Filip Popov:
I don't know if I'll take it to that level, but I'm very close to falling down that rabbit hole. Okay?
[00:20:37] Steven Vettermann:
Try, go, and it's relaxing. It's for me being in the kitchen. It's always like, like a little bit like meditation because it's baking bread is slowing down your life because you have to wait, wait, simply to wait and to look what's happening and oh needs more temperature, less temperature and all this stuff. Yes.
[00:21:03] Filip Popov:
Perfect. Thank you. Thank you for sharing this, um, this part of yourself with us. I'm immediately hungry and yeah, I hope that we can grab a coffee sometime in the future.
[00:21:17] Steven Vettermann:
It would be a pleasure.
[00:21:18] Filip Popov:
Excellent. Have a good one, Steven.
[00:21:23] Steven Vettermann:
Thanks a lot. It was a pleasure. Thanks for the invitation.